Archival Recording
Radio GLLU: 1990 September 30
Irene Martínez
Bienvenidos and welcome to Radio GLLU. I am Irene Martínez, and for those of you tuning in for the first time and don't know who or what is Radio GLLU, I will explain. Radio GLLU means Radio Gay and Lesbian Latino Unidos. It is a half hour program produced by the Communications Committee of the educational nonprofit organization called Gay and Lesbian Latino Unidos. Our program airs every fourth Sunday at 10:00 PM here on KPFK Los Angeles, 90.7 FM, unless otherwise announced, as we will do a little later tonight for next month's program.
Irene Martínez
Tonight, our program touches on two aspects of our identity, being Latino and being gay or lesbian. As Latinos, we have been celebrating our culture with Latino Cultural Awareness Month, being honored this September by attending the various artistic exhibits and teatros being held throughout the city. Coming up, we also will be celebrating our gay and lesbian culture with National Coming Out Day on October 11th, where we are encouraged to take our next step.[INAUDIBLE] these two events, we will be interviewing two people tonight who we'll talk with, Rita Gonzales and Eduardo Archuleta about their coming out experiences as gay and lesbian Latinos and Latinas. Our guests tonight are Pat Martel, who has just been elected to GLLU's board of directors and vice president, and Andy Lopez, member of the year. Now, here is Rita.
Rita Gonazales
I'm Rita Gonzales, and once again, we'd like to welcome you to Radio GLLU. One of our guests today is a very good friend of mine who I've had the privilege of working with on different organizations. Pat Martell, welcome to the show.
Pat Martell
Well, thank you, Rita. I'm really happy to be here tonight. I think that I'm probably still in the coming out stages, and probably will always be in the coming out stages, but my initial coming out, I remember very clearly, it occurred on January 14th, 1978. The reason I remember that is because it was my birthday, so it was a very monumental birthday for me.
Up until that time, and at that time I was 22 years old, I had led a very straight heterosexual existence. I grew up in a very Catholic Latino family and went to Catholic school. My role model for most of my early life was my sister, who was five years older than me. I'd always wanted to be just like her, so I attempted to follow in her footsteps, and unfortunately she was very femme and had lots of boyfriends, so, in true form, I started dating when I was in high school.
But interestingly enough, my very first love, my first boyfriend, whom I will never forget, turned out to be gay. I look back fondly on that [INAUDIBLE].
Rita Gonazales
You didn't know that?
Pat Martell
I didn't know it at the time, and I didn't know it until a number of years after high school. I look back on that in retrospect as a premonition of what was to happen to me. But one thing I did learn out of that experience, and with all my experiences prior to coming out, was that I tried to fit into a role that didn't feel comfortable to me and I didn't really know why, but I went along and tried to fit into that role. And it wasn't until later, when I was in college, after my first year of college, that I met two women while I was at USC who lived right underneath me. Well, I shouldn't say it that way. Their apartment was under my apartment, and they were lesbians.
Rita Gonazales
Did you know they were lesbians?
Pat Martell
I didn't at first. I thought that they were very close roommates. But as we became closer friends, it became clear to me that there was a relationship there that was beyond just being roommates. And at one point, about a year after I had known both of them, one of them, who eventually became my first lover, came out to me and said that they were lesbians and hoped that that would not change my opinion of them at all. Well, it didn't make any difference to me at all.
Rita Gonazales
Did you ever take them home to your parents' home?
Pat Martell
Yes, I took them home and that was-
Rita Gonazales
How was the reaction?
Pat Martell
My parents' eyebrows raised, and I think that they began to wonder at that point. As I said, it wasn't until a couple of years later that I met these two classmates of mine from USC that I became more acquainted with these lesbians and became more acquainted with lesbian lifestyle. Not only did I really accept the fact that they were lesbians and I thought they had a very nice relationship, actually, I admired the two of them because they seemed to be very close and they spent a lot of time together.
Rita Gonazales
You grew up going to a Catholic school. Did religion ever come into the picture?
Pat Martell
No, it never did. I'm not currently practicing as a Catholic, primarily because of the church's stand on gay and lesbians and abortion and a number of other issues which I do not personally believe in my myself and do not believe that any loving God really advocates either. But my true belief in the underlying foundation of my Catholicism really leads me to believe that what it is that religion is supposed to do in our lives is to make us better people, and I think that being a good person, being a loving and a kind and a charitable person, doesn't have anything to do with organized religion. And I think that for me, on a philosophical basis, I truly believe that. And when I accept myself, I accept myself as being someone who is made in God's image, which is one of the things that you learn and have repeated to you constantly in Catholic school, in Catholic education, is that you are an image and likeness of Christ. And I believe that.
Who I am and in whom each person I meet, they're a reflection of that, and I accept that. Whatever lifestyle they may have, whatever race they may be, whatever ethnic background, whatever religion, I accept that. I'm not influenced personally by those people who want to categorize people and to judge people. I don't believe in judging people for who they are, and that's why I can't accept the church's stand in judging people.
So for me, as I said, it was a very unique experience. To this day, I really cannot explain why I never went through a lot of the personal conflict that a lot of people go through in coming out. I accepted the fact that I related emotionally on a level to other women that I never did with men. I think that there was a sense of relief when I finally acknowledged that I liked being with women, and hanging out with these two lesbians, as I did prior to coming out, I felt very comfortable with them. I never felt threatened. I never felt it was wrong. I never felt anything like that. I felt like this was really great. I really connected with them. I had a very conservative upbringing, Catholic home and going to Catholic school.
Rita Gonazales
Well, after you came out, how did your life change?
Pat Martell
Well, I will tell you one thing though in relation to my family. After I came out, the first person I told about my involvement with a lesbian, the fact that I had accepted my life as being a lesbian, was my sister. I remember that conversation I had with her very, very well, because I've always had this desire to be accepted by my sister and for my sister to admire me as much as I admire her. And I think I have that relationship with her, and I think I was worried at the time that that would change if she knew I was a Lesbian.
The one thing that occurred that has always made me feel very good about coming out and also, I think, has affected my acceptance of who I am, is that my sister was very open and very accepting. I remember very clearly the one thing that she said to me was, after we had talked about it and discussed and she'd asked me questions and we had cried together about it, the one thing she said, "You're my sister and I love you, no matter what kind of lifestyle you have." She said, "The only thing that I hope and I pray about in life is that you never have to suffer as a result of being who you are and what you are." And I truly believe that.
I mean, I know that my sister, she would have a fit if anyone said anything about me or about my lifestyle. And my family has pretty much been that way. I mean, they have accepted it. My parents, they don't like to talk about it at all, they just like to pretend that I'm just this person. But I do have to say that my family has accepted the people that I've been involved with and have always embraced them as family, have always included them in all family events and consider them a part of the family.
Every time I have a phone conversation with either my parents or with my sister, the final thing they always say is, "Say hi to Bev." A total acknowledgement. And my extended family has also accepted that. I have not had conversations with each one of them to tell them that I am a lesbian. I think that over the years, the fact that I've never been with a man anywhere and I've not married and I've always been with a woman and I've always lived with a woman, is a total indication to them.
For most of my family members, I think that there's a casual acceptance. Being from a very religious Catholic family and all of them, including my own family, are participants, they regularly attend church and that kind of thing, I think they probably have an internal struggle about it, but that conflict has never been put on me and I have never had any discussions, negative discussions, with family members about who I am and my lifestyle and who I spend my time with and that kind of thing.
Rita Gonazales
Well, that's great. I mean, that's really nice. Well, how do you feel when you're out in the workplace? Because I know you don't work in a gay environment and sometimes it can be a little difficult being whom you are.
Pat Martell
It's very hard. I work for the government and that alone can be very hard.
Rita Gonazales
The government?
Pat Martell
Yes, the government. Aside from being very bureaucratic, the government is very homophobic. But I would have to say that my experience has been that I'm treated as a professional and not as being a lesbian. Now, I do not in any way, shape, or form feel like it's my mission in life to be an advocate in terms of saying I'm a professional lesbian, I'm not. I'm a lesbian professional. Who I am is a totality of things. I'm a Latina, I'm a lesbian, and I'm a professional person in what I do. And those things, you have to accept all of them together, not just the one you like or the one you want to accept, you have to accept all of them.
In everything that I do, in my work, in discussions with people that I work with and people out in the community, those are representations of who I am that I make very clear to people. I do not tolerate negative comments about people of color. I don't tolerate comments about gays and lesbians. I always believe that it's my responsibility because of who I am, to not stand by while people chastise and make comments about people because of their alternative lifestyles or because of their color or anything.
In answer to your question, I think that what I do always in my community work, which is very visible on my job, they know that I'm involved with a lot of gay and lesbian organizations. I've never made a secret of that. I try whenever possible to educate people. I bring in information. I share information about programs that are going to be on public television that are important for people to watch. I feel like it's part of my coming out to also help other people who are homophobic to learn about things that they're not aware of that will maybe dispel their fears.
Because I really believe that many, many people who are homophobic are that way just through pure ignorance, because they don't know any better, because they don't know that there are people like myself who they say, "Oh well, but you're different." I'm not different. I'm like all of the other gays and lesbians in our community. We're good people. We're hardworking people. We're committed people. But the larger community just needs to know that, and they need to have people like myself and other people who are out in the workplace and other places, so that they can begin to identify gays and lesbians with people that they know.
Rita Gonazales
Well, I have one final question. As you know, National Coming Out Day is October 11th. Where are you in your coming out?
Pat Martell
Well, I think that there are a few people that I've worked with, especially, that I think suspect that I'm a lesbian. I've never had a direct conversation about it with them. I think that part of my process is not to just assume that people realize who I am because of what I do, that I need to articulate that to certain people and make them very aware of who I am. And that's an ongoing process for me.
I've always chosen to come out to people on the basis that revealing myself and who I am is important primarily to people who are important to me. It is not so important to me to reveal myself to people who don't have an interest in my life or who have some impact or influence on my life. If they find out, it's fine with me, I have no fear of that. I'm not in the closet, so it's fine. But really sharing my coming out experience and sharing what that means to me in the life that I've chosen for myself is something that I take very seriously in terms of wanting people who are meaningful to me to know that. And people who aren't, it's really not as important.
Rita Gonazales
Well, great. From Radio GLLU, I'm Rita Gonzales with Pat Martell.
Eduardo Archuleta
Another coming out story that we're going to have is by Andy Lopez. Andy Lopez is the 1990 Gay and Lesbian Latino Unidos member of the year for his outstanding contributions to the organization. We're going to talk to Andy right now about coming out.
Andy Lopez
Well, hello there, my name's Andy Lopez and I want to thank you for inviting me to the show. I'm going to start by talking about my coming out experience. For me, it was several stages, and the first one is being aware of being gay at a young age, at seven years old, I was attracted to young men and I felt very comfortable about this, which I told my mother. And of course I was told not to have these feelings and oppress them, which I did up to the age of, I guess, about 14. And then I really was aware that I was gay. Still, trying to repress them, I guess, up to about the age of 18. After I had graduated from high school, that was the first time I really dealt with the issue that I was a gay Latino. And there wasn't very many people that I could turn to.
By luck I ran into a friend from high school who took me to some after hours that were gay, and finally I was very comfortable and I finally made a decision at that point that this was going to be the rest of my life. I was going to live this gay lifestyle. I was very comfortable with men. From that point, I figured I had to deal with it. That was the first stage, is accepting that you're gay.
After that, for me, the second stage for me was coming out to your parents and close friends, and that's what I did. I came out to some friends and I came out to my mother and it was a very difficult feeling for her to accept or understand. At that point it was very rough. And even to this point, my mom has learned to deal with it. I won't say she's comfortable. It's something that where she really doesn't want to talk about it too much. But at the same time, she is very open to it and she has gone to gay bars with me and she'll be going to a GLLU dinner with me, which I'm very proud that she'll be there.
Eduardo Archuleta
How did she react and how did you react to her reaction?
Andy Lopez
She wasn't very happy, of course. She was very upset and she got very depressed about it. Actually had to see a doctor about it. At the same time I was trying to tell her that nothing was different about me, that I was still her son. It was a very difficult stage and it took a long time. It was something that she probably wished didn't happen. And, of course, being in a Latino family, it was like, "What do I do? What will the neighbors say? What will the rest of the family say? Don't tell your grandmother. It'll kill her." All those things.
Of course when she went to the doctor, the doctor talked to her and told her not to worry about it, and that I was still her son and nothing's going to change. And of course, as time goes on she's more relaxed about it now.
It's funny, because my grandmother was fully aware that I was gay and at the time I didn't know about it. My grandmother would ask me questions and probe into my life and of course I wasn't ready to deal with it to her because I was taught that it might kill. But what happened was, the funny thing my mom told me after my grandmother's death, was that my grandmother was fully aware of my gay lifestyle. She knew I was gay. In fact, she confronted my mother and said, "What do you think of your son being gay?" And of course my mother was in total denial and said, "Well, mother, he's not gay." And my grandmother of course said, "If I'm the grandmother and I know he's gay, how can you deny it?"
And of course my mother said, "Mother, your mind is dirty." And of course my grandmother said, "The problem with me is my mind is not dirty, is that I live too long and know too much."
Eduardo Archuleta
How about anybody else in your family? How did they react?
Andy Lopez
Unfortunately, my father found out that I was gay by accident. Overheard a conversation, it was funny, in a restaurant. I was there with a friend. He was there also with someone. We were back to back in a booth and he overheard my conversation and unfortunately from that conversation my father hasn't accepted me and it's been eight years. I've learned to deal with that. But still, I still continue. I am still a gay male Latino and very proud of it and I wouldn't change it for anything.
I have a lot of straight friends and I have a lot of gay friends. I usually judge people for the person they are. I'm a very honest person and I always tell them upfront if I'm comfortable with them that I'm gay. And since I'm very honest with them, people usually become my friend or are very comfortable with me and we can usually talk about almost anything.
I've had a lot of straight friends that are very supportive of me being gay. Usually when I socialize or if I have a gathering or something, I mix my straight friends and my gay friends together and everything goes very well with no problems. For me, that was the third stage. Coming out for the third stage was basically coming out in the public, which I interpret as doing the radio station or having your picture taken and used not only for gay publications but also straight publications and it's sort of like a coming out. And with that, hopefully, I want to be part of the community, not only in the gay community, but also within the Latino community as a gay Latino male.
Eduardo Archuleta
Are you out at work?
Andy Lopez
Yes, I am. I'm working right now as a laborer and I work with a lot of Latino men, and at first they weren't sure that I was gay and as soon as they found out that I was gay, there was a little bit of them being uncomfortable. But as time goes by, they're very comfortable with me now and they can joke with me in a positive sense. I'm very relaxed with them, I'm very comfortable with them, and they're very comfortable with me. It hasn't been an issue anymore and they accept me as a gay Latino male. Hopefully I'm a positive image also as a gay Latino male.
Eduardo Archuleta
When was the last time you came out? Because, again, coming out is a process.
Andy Lopez
The last time I came out was the summer, the later part of the summer. There was a fair in Silver Lake called The Sunset Junction, and I ran into one of my high school teachers, one of my art teachers, and he was very happy to see me. When I was in high school, I was very close to him, with a lot of other friends. He had asked about some of the friends and he had asked, of course, what I was doing. I told him that I was working within GLLU. I was very proud and I told him that I was a gay male Latino. He was a little overwhelmed, a little stunned, a little shocked by it, a little uncomfortable by it, but he dealt with it and we carried a conversation on. I was very happy to come out, because I was very proud of what I've accomplished. I was very proud of being a gay Latino and I was also proud of being there as security as a gay Latino, an openly gay Latino.
Eduardo Archuleta
What was the most positive thing you've experienced since coming out?
Andy Lopez
I think the most positive thing as far as coming out for me would probably being involved in the community. That has been very positive for me, working within community, working with GLLU, other organizations, other community straight organizations. Being a gay Latino male, that has been positive for me.
Eduardo Archuleta
What would you say to somebody who's at the beginning of coming out? Somebody who's maybe just recognized that they are, in fact, gay?
Andy Lopez
First of all, I would say definitely like yourself first, and when you like yourself as a person, you'll like yourself as a gay person. The problem with being gay is everybody's always said that it's bad, it's ugly, and a lot of people aren't very happy with themselves and think of themselves as very negative. They have to think of themselves as a positive person, and when they become a positive person, they'll become a positive gay person.
Take it as it comes. You don't have to necessarily rush out and announce to everybody that you're gay, it is a process and it is a coming out process. Because there are people that don't have to know anything about you, but the ones that you want to be happy with, the people that you want to be part of your life, part of your family, gradually tell them.
Rita Gonazales
I'm Rita Gonzales with this month's calendar of events. The Latina Lesbian Support Group welcomes all Latina lesbians to come join them. There is a Spanish speaking support group, which meets every Tuesday evening, and an English support group that meets every Wednesday evening. Both groups meet in East Los Angeles from 7:00 to 9:00 PM. The address is 972 Goodrich Boulevard, Room 107B.
On November 4th, there will be the East Side Aidsathon through the streets of downtown. This event will benefit many agencies in our community, such as Bienestar Gay and Lesbian Latino Unidos,Cara Cara Acento de Pueblo, and the Homeless Outreach Project, just to name a few. If you would like to get involved, please call (213) 957-0047.
As part of Latino Cultural Awareness Month, these are the following events. Image and Identity, a Chicana art exhibit is being featured at the Laband Art Gallery in Loyola Marymount University. There will also be featuring a Latina lesbian, Laura Aguilar. For gallery hours or any other information, please call (213) 338-2880.
El Teatro Urbano presents the Silver Dollar Play, which is written and directed by Renee Rodriguez. The play is held at the original Silver Dollar in East Los Angeles. For ticket information, please call (818) 244-9509.
Another play dealing with the Chicano moratorium and the death of Ruben Salazar is August 29th. For more information on that play, please call (213) 627-5599.
Lesbianas Unidas of GLLU are having their seventh annual Latino lesbian cultural retreat from October 26th through the 28th. If you would like more information, please call (213) 663-0865.
Gay and Lesbian Latino Unidos is having their ninth anniversary and award ceremony on October 6th at the Hyatt Wilshire Hotel. Some of those being honored will be Adele Martinez for special recognition, the UCLA Chicano Studies Research Center for Community Organization. For more information, please call (213) 660-9681.
If you would like to get involved with GLLU, Gay and Lesbian Latino Unidos, we meet the second Thursday of each month at 1213 North Highland Avenue in Hollywood. If you would like more information about upcoming events, please call (213) 660-9681. Don't forget that October 5th is the last day to register to vote.
This has been Rita Gonzales with Radio GLLU KPFK Los Angeles 90.7 FM.
Irene Martínez
Thank you for listening to Radio GLLU. We would also like to thank our guests this evening, Pat Martell and Andy Lopez. A special thanks to our technical engineer, David Pap. Radio GLLU airs the fourth Sunday of each month at 10:00 PM. Next month, however, we will be on the third Sunday. I am Irene Martinez with...
Rita Gonazales
Rita Gonzales.
Eduardo Archuleta
And Eduardo Archuleta.
Rita Gonazales & Eduardo Archuleta
Gracias y buenas noches.
Credits:
“Radio Gay and Lesbian Latinos Unidos (GLLU) 1990 September 23,” open reel audiotape (7 inch reel). IMRU Radio Sound Recordings and Administrative Records, 1970-2011. ONE Archives at the USC Libraries.